Will Haggard end up preaching or selling used cars?

Will Ted Haggard be cured, healed and restored? Or will he end up broken, beaten and bitter?

Flip a coin, an evangelical expert suggests. Odds that a fallen minister can bounce back are about 50-50.

DENVER (AP) — There will be prayer, and perhaps the laying on of hands. There will be counseling and a confession. And there will be advice, confrontation and rebuke from "godly men" appointed to oversee the spiritual "restoration" of the Rev. Ted Haggard.

After tumbling from the pinnacle of the American evangelical movement amid allegations he snorted meth and cavorted with a male prostitute, Haggard has agreed to a rehabilitation process that could last three to five years.

"I see success approximately 50% of the time," said H.B. London, vice president for church and clergy at Focus on the Family, the conservative Christian ministry in Colorado Springs. "Guys just wear out and they can no longer subject themselves to the process."

Those who fail "end up selling cars or shoes or something, and being miserable and angry the rest of their lives," London said. -- (Associated Press)

Comments

[David Dunn]

In these same-sex encounters involving religious persons, according to Matthew 19:12, that's the way they're born. But how often is that ignored?

Also ignored is any attempt to understand Androgynes. Androgynes' genitalia determines their sex. Their gender and sexual orientation is between the ears.

Androgynes can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, unisexual and asexual. That is a continuum. Androgynes can travel back and forth along that continum throughout life.

Haggard needs to recall when he first had a same sex affair and how long did he continue in it?

How long did he abstain from same sex activity? Or did he?

Being a religious man, he should accept that he was made that way for a reason and not subject himself to self-condemnation.

The man doesn't need to be brow-beaten and condemned for sexual immorality by relgious groups.

Sexual immorality among consenting heterosexual adults is adultery and fornication. Those are heterosexual acts.

Sex between consenting persons of the same sex is not sexual immorality, even if one or both are married. Thus it's not a sin.

Depending on his circumstance, Haggard needs to understand himself and above all be willing to forgive himself.

He may need to come out of the closet, so to speak, which it seems he has almost already done. He doesn't need to carry a load of guilt around just because he hangs around with those who think that such behavior is immoral.

Those are just opinion of men who put them in a book they call 'sacred scripture'. Those books are no more sacred than any other book written by men. It's just opinions, not facts.

[perplexed]

If he is cured, which depends on him,why would he choose to put himself back into a position that he couldn't handle to begin with? How long has he decieved his flock? As a man, he balanced good and evil himself, how can he shake rewarding himself with his indulgences. Dr. Dobson has a larger responibilty than Haggard. It would be a tremendous job to get inside this mans brain and see how it ticks. A very lengthy project that could be subject to many a book deal. Haggard himself could write a book that I certainly would like to read, just to try and understand his struggles.

[Bart McQueary]

Why he will return to "preaching" of course. He will make more lucre than ever.

Today's churches eat up sin with a spoon! They love it when those false prophets get up there and cry and sling snot over what they did. Hell, Mike Warnke was made hundreds of thousands of dollars with that gimmick!

[Rick Cendo]

It's interesting the fall-back career for pastors is auto sales.

[Bob Cornwall]

Oh, my, only a 50% success rate and those who fail end up selling shoes and are miserable the rest of their lives. Not surprising, I suppose, as the guilt has been poured on so deep they would have to feel like a failure. I guess Ted has a good chance of selling shoes.

[interested]

Let he without sin cast the first stone. Yes, this man has made mistakes, yes he deceived his flock by presenting himself as something he was not...but Jesus forgives the hard part is forgiving yourself. It is not our place to judge this man it is our responsibility to love him and help him find his way back. Judgement is what keeps so many people from repenting and turning thier life over to God. It's not up to us to say "enter in you good and faithful servant" that God's job.

Sex? Sin? Nah. Got "nothing" to do with anything. This is about power and money. Power and money will win, with "God's" help of course. We all need to be more spiritual in our particular belief, walk our own walk and stop pouring our efforts (and money) into the person, or persons that say they are Godly. We seem to accept their role so we can let those persons do our religion for us. Watch the sun rise or set and stand in awe of a Creator. Forget the Right, Left, keep your money and be the Power.

[Bart McQueary]

David Dunn, are you just pure evil? "Sex between consenting persons of the same sex is not sexual immorality, even if one or both are married. Thus it's not a sin."

What if someone reads that and believes it!

The Bible calls homosexual activity an abomination, "vile affections", and Jesus says that homosexuals will be cast into the lake of fire!

Haggard feels no guilt I assure you of that! Guilt is the first step of repentance. If you aren't shameful of what you did, you can't repent. How can you repent of something you are proud of!

Yes Haggard is headed to hell and David you will be right there with him to assure him that he's not a sinner!

[perplexed]

You know Haggard has had it all, the people, the power, a family that stands behind him. Yet he struggles with something like this, a man in his position knows this is like the apple in the garden of Edan, yet he chose to do it. What do you do? So many people struggle with everyday life, groceries or insurance, gas for the car or clothes for the kids. It just doesn't seem fair that a man like this would waste such an opportunity on something so self indulgent.

[buford]

Mr David Dunn Matthew dosen't say that at all. Who are you trying to kid?

[lisa]

Mr. David Dunn: If you read read Matthew 19:12 I think you will find that the the writer-translator was talking about eunuches; which if you will look up that term describes a person who has been castrated. This verse in no way implies that homosexuality is OK in the New Testment. In fact the reason that Homosexuality is not mentioned much in the NT is that there is some "sins" which -when exposed the people involved were automatically put to a horrible death. I would like to know precisously where in the Bible that Homosexuality is an excepted practice--I can only find the opposite. Also Christians love to forgive sinners--becausee all sinners, we are told to forgive(doesn't mean to foreget or allow the sinner to continue in their ways); but also each and everyone of us can relate to a sinner much easier than to a Holier-than-thou person.

[Frank Melton]

Matthew 19:12 is talking about eunuchs, which is not the same as homosexuals.
I Cor.6:9 is about sexual immorality and homosexuals.

[Totem to Temple]

In my part of the country (NC), they do two things:

(1): Go through the 'repentance' and secretly behind the repentance council's back, crash study to obtain their real estate, insurance broker's, or stock broker's license and when they take the exam and pass, find employment out of town, quit the 'process' because they all believe it takes way too long and they believe that the people who are counseling them are actually 'holding them back'.

(2): go through the same process described earlier but find employment at an independent church across the country, list their brother-in-law as the head elder of the last church (who gives a splendid reference), and then leave.